tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057944115950135109.post5595398360670630882..comments2023-04-17T09:36:04.878-04:00Comments on Deb Fixes America: The Most Boring Reading in America Today: "America's Affordable Health Choices Act of 2009"Debhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/00128586080887623790noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057944115950135109.post-69439784426639269542009-08-09T14:37:34.394-04:002009-08-09T14:37:34.394-04:00Chris,
I have no doubt that there are people wi...Chris, <br /><br />I have no doubt that there are people within the democratic party want single payer, however, the link you posted is too a conservative "think tank" site (the heritage foundation), so I, personally, don't base my thoughts on health care reform based upon their analysis as they have their own agenda. I've tried to stick with primary sources (legislation and speeches in their entirety and within their context) so that I can analyze it myself. I don't trust the integrity of either conservative or liberal political rhetoric. <br /><br />I do think that Obama would move to a single payer if it were politically and economically viable, which is why when campaigning he said that (to union people who wanted to hear it). Those campaign promises are why the single payer people are so angry with him right now. However, I think that it's all a moot point because that's not the discussion on the table as of right now. So, what happens is people are arguing something that shows they aren't informed, looks hysterical, and does long term credibility damage. <br /><br />There are enough problems with the legislation to simply argue the legislation. Honestly, I've read several polls lately that shows support for the legislation dropping because of the simple fact that no one believes that we can pay for this legislation. It makes more sense to fight it on the merits of what is actually there.Debhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00128586080887623790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057944115950135109.post-3615342435811133382009-08-05T15:22:34.286-04:002009-08-05T15:22:34.286-04:00OK -- not to beat a dead horse, but I came to my b...OK -- not to beat a dead horse, but I came to my belief that this legislation is a step toward Single Payer without the benefit of this evidence.<br /><br />http://fixhealthcarepolicy.com/in-the-news/obamacare-is-called-a-trojan-horse-for-a-reason/#more-1262<br /><br />Whether or not the strategy works, its clear that advocates of Single Payer believe that a public option is the politically savvy route to get there.Chris Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00727190727483419819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057944115950135109.post-88883824100448454082009-08-05T12:21:50.375-04:002009-08-05T12:21:50.375-04:00Didn't say that all democrats aspire to Single...Didn't say that all democrats aspire to Single Payer. Said our president and the authors. I admit that authors <i>may</i> be a bit extreme because I don't know for sure who all is authoring unless this is Obama's plan. Then I have to conclude, based on Obama's own statements in the past, that this is ultimately what he is after.<br /><br />Assuming it is legit, and I haven't heard anything to suggest that it isn't, <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fpAyan1fXCE" rel="nofollow">this video</a> is pretty clear despite what the White House wants to say about it. I realize this is campaign mode and stands in contrast to what he is saying now. However, I haven't heard him retract this. I maintain that it's reasonable to assume that this legislation is likely a step toward Single Payer. Very possible it's the first step of many that need to occur to get there.<br /><br />That said, I agree with you about the distraction effect.Chris Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00727190727483419819noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057944115950135109.post-7586634853961456332009-08-05T07:49:04.060-04:002009-08-05T07:49:04.060-04:00Chris,
I think that to say that the President and...Chris,<br /><br />I think that to say that the President and the authors of the legislation aspire to a single payer system is too extreme. First of all, not all democrats are touting a single payer system, secondly I can find nothing where Obama says that he is trying for a single payer system. I have found A LOT of quotes taken out of context to push that idea, but when I've found a context for the quotes, it's been him saying that he likes the idea of a single payer but realizes it's not a practical model because so many people are employed by the insurance industry. Sure, it could happen, just like people who say that making abortion illegal can lead to making birth control illegal. I don't agree with him, single payer is ludicrous, but I still think that the press has created a panic that is not necessary and distracts from the actual flaws that will convince people to put pressure on legislators to vote this down. <br /><br />In fact, the single payer community (like a lobbying group called "Physicians for a National Health Care Program") are ticked with him because they say he's told them single payer is off the table. They are also ticked because of whom he tapped to lead his health care reform leadership team. <br /><br />This is from the PNHP website (I can't get the link to work, ie: I'm not as cool with computers as you are!): <br /><br />"Dr. David Himmelstein is a founder and spokesperson for Physicians for a National Health Program.<br />"Himmelstein’s take - Obama is caving to the insurance industry.<br /><br />“The President once acknowledged that single payer reform was the best option, but now he’s caving in to corporate healthcare interests and completely shutting out advocates of single payer reform,” Himmelstein said. “The majority of Americans favor single payer, and it’s the most popular reform option among doctors and health economists, but no single payer supporter has been invited to participate in the administration’s health care summit. Meanwhile, he’s appointed as his health reform czar Nancy-Ann DeParle, a woman who has made her living advising health care investors and sits on the board of many for-profit firms that have made billions from Medicare. Her appointment — and the invitation list to the healthcare summit — is a clear signal that the administration plans to propose a corporate-friendly health reform that has no chance of actually solving our health care crisis.”<br /><br />As I pointed out in one of my entries, if we discuss what's on the table and not engage in rhetoric about what might happen, I think we're going to go further to bring about change in this legislation. In order for Obama and the dems that want single payer to succeed, it will take years and multiple elections. Whether he's changed his position on that because he really thinks it won't work -- I doubt it. I think he realizes it won't fly. His power is limited, as is congress, and to make change that would make millions of Americans (including those left unemployed by the change) unwilling to vote for them. <br /><br />Honestly, I think that Obama is more concerned with becoming the first president since Lydon Johnson to make sweeping changes in social policy than any said policy. <br /><br />I believe that Obama's health plan is essentially the one that has been made into the legislation. There has been little change since congress is controlled by democrats. He's calling the legislation his plan. I can't find anything else with the exception of the White House website has a dinky little 3 paragraph thing. <br /><br />As much as I don't agree with many of his policies, I do like that one of his goals is to make government as transparent as possible, with as much accountability as possible. I saw that part of his plan written into the legislation.Debhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00128586080887623790noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4057944115950135109.post-71012914021429246702009-08-04T09:47:19.303-04:002009-08-04T09:47:19.303-04:00Deb -- I appreciate you taking the time to read th...Deb -- I appreciate you taking the time to read through this. I've downloaded it, but have not had time (or sufficient desire) to dig in yet. Uggh.<br /><br />A couple of thoughts hit me as I read your assessment.<br /><br />1. Single Payer is not a part of this legislation. However, it is not a secret that the authors and our President aspire to this. It's reasonable to assume that there is a strategy leading in that direction. I think this legislation is the foot in the door.<br /><br />2. I think that end of life, abortion and other moral issues come into play more-so when (not if) single payer comes into play. I'm heartened to hear that they have placed limitations on abortion. However this will certainly evolve. The authors and president have a clear position in that regard.<br /><br />The biggest red lights to me are the massive push and the unwillingness to adequately connect the dots between what the problems are and how this legislation proposes to fix the problems.<br /><br />BTW -- I keep hearing about Obama's plan -- have you seen this plan anywhere? I realize that the legislation is what matters, but Obama is selling his plan. How does this legislation match up?<br /><br />This is so fundamental that it deserves time for debate and honest dialog. I'd love to see a book outlining the plan / proposed solutions, similar to what the Fair Tax people have done.<br /><br />The approach the administration is taking is that we have to rush this through before the people wise up and elect people to kill it. If that's the case, and I'm sure it is, then I think that is evidence that this deserves more time and attention.<br /><br />Thanks for working to keep us at the table :-)<br /><br />ChrisChris Blairhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00727190727483419819noreply@blogger.com